Jung's Map of the Soul - A Conversation with Murray Stein pt.3

We hope that so far you have found our conversation with Murray Stein illuminating. We continue our special with part 3 right here.

How can sudden changes to a person's situation; winning the lottery, losing a high powered respected job, affect the dynamic of the shadow, ego and persona?

A sudden change in social status and location such as you describe can have a powerful effect on a person’s self or self-worth. If you have a sudden gain in status, you may become inflated and lose your grounding in yourself, in your history and in your connection to other people. This can be very disorienting, and eventually you will have to find your way back to yourself as you were before the windfall. That’s why people who win the lottery often don’t give up their jobs. They need that to keep their feet on the ground and to feel real. A sudden loss, such as happens in getting fired from a high powered job or in overnight retirement without preparation for the aftermath, leads to depression and low self-esteem. You feel like a nobody. It is a challenge to find your true self worth as a child of God and not as a mere member of the social order.

Integration of the persona and shadow hinges on self-acceptance, is this self-acceptance subconscious? Can someone who consciously hates aspects about themselves subconsciously integrate their persona and shadow to successfully live and function in the world?

It’s true that a lot goes on in the unconscious that we are not aware of for a long time. The unconscious processes anticipate the future development of the personality. So if there is a reconciliation of persona and shadow in the unconscious and this is not yet manifest in consciousness, it can have an ameliorating effect on a persona’s functioning in the world. They will be less prone to splitting and shadow projection, and so will be able to function more effectively in their everyday life with family and colleagues.

People and role models. Social masks, “personas”, people exclude all the different aspects of themselves in order to fit in/survive etc. So the question is, why do we constantly feel the need to be inspired by people that reject the social norms? Why do we see them as someone to look up to?

I don’t think you mean to suggest that we are inspired by criminals, that is by people who break the social norms in destructive ways. Heroes always go beyond the social norms. They blaze a new path toward greater consciousness. We are inspired by them because they show us what we instinctively know to be the true and just way ahead. People need this in order to evolve and develop greater consciousness. The unconscious basically wants to become conscious, and this is one of the ways it works.

Yes, our question related to 'heroes', people who go beyond the social norms. Thank you.

Have you received any letters or comments of opposition when writing Jung’s theory of the anima/animus inside men and women and their specific characteristics?

Yes, but usually the problem is that people have not read Jung carefully enough. They jump to conclusions about his theory of anima/animus. However, it’s also true that Jung was sometimes careless in what he said. He wrote so much and spoke to so many different audiences, professional and public, that he sometimes oversimplified his theory. In my book I tried to stick to the best expressions of his theory as they have been published them in his Collected Works. The other thing that one must always remember about Jung is that he did not theorize out of thin air. His theories are preceded by his experience, either with his own psychology or with patients in his clinical work. Experience precedes theory. This is an ironclad rule for Jung. Many of his critics don’t share the experience and only go on the theory, and this can easily lead to poor understanding of what Jung is proposing.

Have you had communication from the readers advising that this book speaks to them on an inner level, being so relatable that it has helped them cope with some inner issues?

Yes, I have had quite a few messages along these lines. It is most gratifying to an author that his or her works are being read and taken in by readers who are able to relate deeply to what is being said. Such testimonials are very encouraging and motivating to continue what sometimes feels like a lonely labor in the service of an idea or vision.

Can anything alter the anima/animus within or can it be switched depending on a person’s mental state?

The anima and animus images are relatively stable and constant from adolescence onward, in my experience. The feelings of awe, love, admiration and wonder that they evoke in the emotional life of the individual may change a bit in degree with age and experience, but that is about all.

Has the realm of mental disorders such as schizophrenia or multiple personality disorders been touched upon with regards to specific characteristics within each personality?

The psycho-dynamics of such conditions have been much discussed and the contents as well. Jung’s early book on schizophrenia is still worth reading. As a psychiatrist he was engaged in the study of schizophrenia throughout his career.

As a layman with no experience or understanding of psychology how would you explain to them what the map of the soul is? What was Jung trying to explain with his theories and how would we apply it to the modern lifestyle?

The map of the soul is a guide to the inner world of dreams, fantasies, emotional reactions and moods, the significance and meaning of attraction and repulsion, and the process of psychological development from birth to old age and death. Maps help you to know where you are, and are especially useful in unfamiliar territories. My attempt in this book was to help people identify and name what’s going on in their psyches when they dream, imagine, react emotionally to other  people and change as they age.

Similarly there are many who scoff at the idea of Psychic energy. Is there such a thing or is it just in the mind? When a person hears about a subject repeatedly they would begin take in information unconsciously, so could psychic energy really be just that, and it doesn’t actually exist?

What we call psychic energy can be thought of as “interest.” If you take a strong interest in BTS, for example, we say that their music and performance draws your psychic energy to them and gives them meaning for you. You take a strong interest in their lyrics and music. If you get up in  the morning and have something interesting and exciting to do that day, you have energy for it. Energy is an invisible attraction to something or someone, a motivation to do something or go somewhere. If you have no energy, you are lethargic and maybe depressed and your life feels empty and meaningless. Psychic energy is very real. You can measure it.

How much of Jung’s writings still apply to modern life? For example his suggestions about libido and sexuality having a dual nature; he wrote that it was innate to the human psyche to sacrifice sexual satisfaction which would apply to societal etiquette's in the past. However there seem to be no qualms for people to indulge themselves in modern society, with some even relishing how many conquests they can make. Are there any other boundaries that we have broken, where his theories no longer apply and do you feel this is a step in the right direction for us?

Social morals change over time and what is taboo and inappropriate in one age may not be in another. Nevertheless, other rules will still apply. It seems that the sense of right and wrong is ever present even if the contents change regarding what is allowed. Some behaviors like incest between parents and children or between bothers and sisters remain pretty much taboo even if there are cases of this exceptionally. Modern society is more indulgent of physical and sexual pleasure than was the case in Jung’s time, but I don’t think this invalidates his theories. There are still many people who sacrifice their sexual satisfaction for the sake of honesty or integrity.

Psychic energy having the power to move things along - could this relate to the energy between BTS and Army - could this be how they connect with us by saying Army’s pride is their pride (the energy being the relationship between BTS and Army).

Psychic energy could also be called love in such cases. If you love someone or love a cause, you have tremendous energy for anything pertaining to this person or activity. When the love and respect is mutual, the energy increases proportionately. Maybe this is what holds BTS and ARMY so close together and generates such an amount of devotion and energy.

I also wonder about the symbolism and BTS; could BTS be a symbol to many, as a symbol attracts a great deal of energy to itself? There definitely seems to be a lot of energy and passion surrounding them.

Symbols give a sense of meaning. If BTS is a symbol for somebody, it generates a sense of meaning to be involved with them, to hear their messages, to attend their concerts, to tell their friends about them. Symbols are hard to explain. If you are asked why BTS is so important to you and you are at a loss for words and have a hard time explaining your passion, then BTS is a symbol for you. Religious passion is based on and nourished by symbols, but so are secular organisations like BTS, or football teams, or political movements. In Jung’s understanding, a symbol is the best possible expression of an unconscious content seeking to manifest itself.

Jung describes the process of individuation, i.e. combining the conscious and unconscious parts of one’s personality, as one that takes place in the second half of a person’s life, after the ego & persona development has been completed in early adulthood. A lot of support is given to younger people by their families and educational institutions to achieve their ego and persona development and become valuable members of society. Can a society also support people in the process of individuation later in life? If yes, how?

It is not necessarily in society’s interest to promote individuation in the second half of life. It is very much in the individual’s interest, however. Individuation takes energy away from social involvement and redirects it to individual development. Jung recognizes that this withdrawal of energy from the social world must be repaid at a later date. This is done when the now more conscious individual returns to the “marketplace” as a more balanced and wiser person who can guide others. This is called “paying back” for what has been received from the collective. It involves teaching and bringing positive influence to social and political life.

How can a person determine at which of the five stages of the individuation process they are?

It is difficult to determine this by oneself. There are some measures that can be applied but it is better if this is done by someone else, like a trained psychological counsellor or advisor. Jungian analysts are trained to make such assessments and to help their clients advance through the stages in an age appropriate way. One must also recognize that the stages and levels of individuation are not so clear cut, and each person is unique in how they make their way through the journey.

As Jung was speaking of an ‘individuation drive’, an innate desire to achieve a wholesome personality, can a person consciously influence and support this process or does it have to come naturally?

Individuation involves cooperation between the ego and one’s nature. It is not something to be forced and there are no fixed recipes for this. However there are some steps that can one can take and that may prove helpful. For instance, paying attention to your dreams and recording them is a good beginning. Also reflecting on your attitudes and behaviour and motivations and trying to understand where they originate. You will feel more whole when you aren’t in conflict with yourself, when you begin to take the various aspects of your personality into account and are not only directed by persona or ego concerns. When you are satisfying your innate drive toward wholeness you will know it and feel inner satisfaction that you are being true to your deepest needs and desires for fulfilment.

Are certain psychological types, e.g. introverted intuitives, better equipped to achieve full individuation than others?

Not really, because individuation requires achieving a measure of balance among all four functions (intuition, sensation, feeling, thinking) and both attitudes (introversion and extroversion). The struggle is equal for all psychological types. We all have to deal with our inferior functions.

We end part 3 here; what are your thoughts? We conclude our special Jung's Map of the Soul - A Conversation with Murray Stein tomorrow with part 4. We hope you join us again.

If you've missed any part of our conversation with Murray Stein you can find them at the following links:

Jung's Map of the Soul - A Conversation with Murray Stein pt.1

Jung's Map of the Soul - A Conversation with Murray Stein pt.2

Got some questions that you would like to ask the author himself? Then please feel free to leave a comment below, or alternatively you can email us at shinara.btsradiouk@gmail.com

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